肯·史密斯访谈录
Interview with Ken Smith by Jared Green
2014-09-02 09:45:55    评论:0 | keywords: 访谈录  Ken  Smith  Interview  Jared  Green 
肯·史密斯访谈录
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By Jared Green

肯·史密斯,肯·史密斯景观设计事务所及其西部工作室总裁
Ken Smith is the principal of Ken Smith Landscape Architecture and Ken Smith Workshop West.



↓ 在过去的几年间,您一直都在着手占地1300英亩(约526公顷)的橘郡公园这一庞大的工程项目,其中还包括对一处绵延2.5英里(约4公里)的已建成峡谷地带的改造。对于操控如此超大规模的项目,您认为其主要的挑战与机遇都有哪些?
In the past few years, you began work on the immense 1,300 acre Orange Country Great Park, which also included a constructed 2.5 mile canyon. What are the main challenges and opportunities working in such a huge scale?

 

我认为,面对这样的大型项目,前期拟定合理的设计思路与设计方案相对简单。然而,其本质的挑战在于需要确保项目的施行走上正轨,并考虑在项目建设和执行的协调方面,如何应对相关的政治与金融问题。就我个人的看法,项目在执行上的问题相对容易得到解决,而在监管方面则相对复杂。如何实现合理的统筹规划与协调,并使之得以顺利执行,应该是承接此类大型项目所面临的最大挑战。

I think it’s easier to come up with the concepts and the design for something that big. But the principle challenge is actually keeping the project on track and figuring out how you start to deal with the political and financial issues in terms of orchestrating the construction and implementation. There are things that I would have liked to have seen much earlier in the implementation, things that are not possible because of regulatory issues. Figuring out how you actually orchestrate the park and get it implemented has turned out to be the biggest challenge.

 


↓ 生态栖息园的建设是橘郡公园项目中一个十分重要的组成部分,它的建成将形成整个公园的“生态中轴”。对于生态栖息园自然生境的修复,您是如何着手的?您对于该项目的生态发展又有哪些具体的措施?
One component of the Orange Country Great Park is a habitat park which will provide an "ecological backbone." How have you gone about reconstructing nature in this area of the great park? What have been your strategies for ecological development?

 

截至目前,你所提到这些都尚未建成。野生动物走廊是较早动工的园内设施之一,其施工的起始阶段就是单纯的土方重整工程,并无其他实质性的施工内容。园中的植被恢复相关策略则由生态学家史蒂芬·亨德尔拟定并执行。从橡子播种到小树苗的种植,他开发了一系列富有趣味性的植栽技术。从他那里,我收获了许多生态植栽方面的知识,并意识到杂草的控制与治理实际上是原生栖息地修复过程中所要面临的关键性问题。这种杂草的迅速扩散与蔓延可能造成相当严重的恶果。因此,如何进行合理的土壤配置,以有效控制杂草的蔓生,也成为项目施行过程中的巨大挑战。

None of that has been built yet. The wildlife corridor is one of the early implementation items. It starts with an earth work of regrading and that hasn’t happened yet. Revegetation strategies are really developed by the ecologist, Steven Handel. He’s developed a series of interesting techniques that range from seeding acorns to planting small saplings. From what I’ve learned from him, weed control and weed abatement are actually the big issues in terms of native habitat restoration. The invasives can be a big problem. How you prepare the soil and control the invasives through the process are probably the biggest challenges.


 

↓ 据了解,您近期的纽约现代艺术博物馆屋顶花园项目,有部分是借鉴了日式庭园的设计风格。您和您的设计团队也对迷彩式布局设计的发展演变进行了深入的研究,相关理念也对该项目的设计产生了积极的影响。能否请您就现代艺术博物馆屋顶花园项目中纳入迷彩式设计布局的相关理念作一下具体的解析?
I understand your recent MoMA Roof Garden Project was inspired in part by Japanese gardens. You and your team also conducted intensive review of the history of camouflage and those ideas influenced the design. What was the combination of ideas that inspired the MOMA Roof Garden?

 

赋予一处景观空间以多重层级,使其富有景观层次感,其实是相当有趣的,在我看来,这为单调的空间格局平添了丰富的景观内含。换言之,屋顶花园中丰富的景观层次和生动的景观语言能够给予人们不断变化的奇妙的视觉体验。从日式庭园的角度审视,我认为这一屋顶花园并没有过多类似于金庙庭园的古典石景庭园设计元素。屋顶花园以各色彩石划分植栽区,种植着一株株小松树,这实际上也可以看作是盆栽的一种形式,其生长空间有着一定的局限性,因而不如自然生境中的松树来得高大和壮实。但是,当你从视觉对比的角度去欣赏这些彩石植栽区、小松树与周遭的自然景观时,花园的总体布局尺度似乎瞬间变大,由于视角的改变,这些各自独立的彩石植栽区便形成了一个整体。这其实是一种视角尺度的变形,在这样视角转换间,我感受到了无尽的乐趣。屋项花园中的这些彩石与小灌木植物生动自如地演绎着这种视角尺度的转换,相较于传统的中规中矩的日式庭园景观对于大块岩石与细小碎石简单的石景布局,其所蕴含的景观语言更显丰富多彩。

It’s interesting to have something that operates on several levels because I think it gives it a complexity. I mean the garden is very graphic and you look at it and you kind of get it, but there are other things going on. From Japanese gardens, I think it’s really not so much the classic rock garden as the gardens like the Golden Temple. That garden has these little islands with little pine trees that are kind of bonsai-ed. The trees on the island are smaller than in nature. They’re in this lake and the lake is not very big. But when you view those islands and those somewhat miniaturized trees against the real landscape behind, it makes the whole composition of the garden seem bigger because you’re reading as full size and they’re not. There's a kind of scale distortion I find to be really interesting. The little rocks and little shrubs at MoMA are really playing that kind of game of scale distortion more so than the kind of superficial rocks and gravel kind of a stereotypical Japanese garden.


 

↓ 您在对这一屋顶花园的相关景观材料进行筛选之前,一定做过大量的研究工作。这些材料中,有一些是可回收利用的,而另一些则是定制式不可回收的。对于这些材料的运用,你是如何取舍的?科技的不断进步如何使得这些材料的可持续性应用更为简便?
Extensive research was conducted before you selected the materials in the rooftop garden. Some of the materials were recycled. Others were factory made. How has technology changed how you select and use materials? How has technology made sustainable use of materials easier?

 

实际上,在整个项目的施行过程中,选材布局都在不断变化。起初,对于花园的总体框架式构建,我打算采用棕褐色或灰色的菲利普·约翰逊砖,这是建材砖的一种。在上世纪六、七十年代,著名建筑师菲利普·约翰逊在为现代艺术博物馆设计建造其附属建筑时,曾大量使用这种砖,由此,这种建材砖以他的名字命名并得以广泛应用。因此,我认为在屋顶花园中对于这一建材的延用,能够增强其与博物馆建筑主体在整体结构上的统一性。而园中多处弧度及相关细部都是为了与菲利普·约翰逊砖相匹配而设计的。然而,最终,却因为这种砖料高昂的价格而作罢。此外,施工人员也无法准确把握这些弧度区域的构建。
此后,我与一位名叫布莱恩·托尔的艺术家取得合作。布莱恩长期从事这些有趣的硬质景观雕塑。他曾在纽约市政公园的曲状壁炉设计上有效地解决了弧度区域及其细部设计施工问题,并将其命名为“魔幻曲度”,其完美的曲度呈现出不可思议的美感。当我向他问及其中缘由时,他回答说:“嗯,其实我所采用的并不是真正的建材砖,这种砖的原料实际上是泡沫塑料。”原来,他在这种泡沫塑料材质的表层添加了许多的固化物质,再由工厂经过计算机模具进行研磨压制,而后对其进行喷漆及曲度处理。从他那里,我还了解到,这种工艺也常常应用于历史性建筑及相关遗迹的保护中。它可灵活取代历史性建筑中的檐板及其它建筑细部。对此,我受到了极大的启发,屋顶花园中的弧度细部,完全可以通过这种研磨式固化泡沫材料得以完美呈现。它的材质轻便,式样现代,价格低廉,这些优势,使得我们最终决定用它来替代原先的选材。
此外,博物馆方面还为屋顶花园的建设预先构置了黑色和白色的大块石材。但由于施工过程的特殊性,这些石材并未被最终采用。博物馆方面究竟出于何种原因而预先购置了这些石材,我不得而知。然而,就整体美观而言,我们也确实必须去寻找以黑、白为主色的石材。我们采用了白色大理石碎石,同时以价格低廉且材质轻便的可回收性黑色橡胶块替代传统的黑色石材。

The material pallet actually changed through the process of the roof. Originally, for the headers that outlined the shapes, I wanted to use Phillip Johnson brick, the kind of tan/gray brick that Phillip Johnson always used and had used on his additions to the museum in the ‘60s or ‘70s or whenever. He did that. I thought that would be a great kind of contextural thing to use his brick. And those curves and things were all designed to work with that brick. But in the end, we couldn’t afford it. It was too expensive. The laborers couldn’t figure out how to really control those shapes.
I was working with an artist, Brian Tolle. Brian had been doing these interesting sculptures. He did this one called the Witch Catcher, which was this kind of twisted fireplace thing in City Hall Park in New York City, which I thought was fabulous. And I was asking him about it. And he said, “Well, it’s not brick at all. It’s made out of Styrofoam.” He, in fact, makes most of his stuff out of Styrofoam and it’s milled in factories based on a computer model. And then it’s treated with this kind of polycoat and painted. I also learned that this is the same process used in historic preservation, a lot of building preservation. The material used to replace the cornices for historic buildings or other kind of architectural detail is actually made out of this milled foam. It occurred to me that the milled foam would be a way that I could get the control I wanted on those shapes. It was lightweight. It was contemporary. It was a lot cheaper. So, that’s how that material shift happened.
In the end, MoMA pre-purchased the black and white rocks. But in the end, they never materialized because of the construction process. I don’t know what happened to them. We had to find black and white material. We did use white crushed marble stone but we also used recycled black rubber chunks instead of black rocks because it was a lot cheaper and lighter weight.


 

↓ 您是如何看待绿色基础设施在过去若干年中的形成与发展的?您是否认为它将会逐渐形成一种主流理念?
How do you think the understanding of green infrastructure has evolved over the years? Do you think it’s becoming a more mainstream concept?

 

这是一个媒体与公众都在热议的话题。在20世纪的工程领域中,对于基础设施建设曾经有着十分深入的研究。你也许会认为布鲁克林大桥是一座具备多功能性的大型综合性桥梁设施,然而,它最初不过是一条可供马匹和行人穿行的普通步道而已。到了20世纪中叶,所有的事物都变得专业化、复杂化,架设一座桥梁的意义不再只是为了便于车辆通行,它也不再是只具备单一用途的基础设施。我们更加注重强调这些基础设施的多功能性。一座桥梁设施除了拥有核心的通行用途之外,还必须具备有利于人们日常生活的其他附属功能,例如,桥梁可以是一个具有发电功能的太阳能集热器。我们正逐步将注意力转移到诸如此类的基础设施多功能性用途上,这是一个十分有趣的现象,证明绿色环保概念已日渐深入人心。

The media and everybody is talking about this. Somewhere in the 20th century engineering became very specialized in terms of infrastructure. If you think of the Brooklyn Bridge, that’s a bridge that has multiple functions. It was originally a road for horses but also carried people, a great promenade. Somewhere in the middle of the 20th century, things became so specialized where, you know, a bridge was just for cars and it was very much a single-purpose piece of infrastructure. What we’re finding now is an emphasis on multiple uses of infrastructure. All infrastructure has maybe a core use, like a bridge. But it also has other functions for people, and maybe it becomes a solar collector for generating electricity. We’re starting to see this kind of multiple use. That’s an interesting green notion.


 

↓ 现代城市如何能够以最佳的方式将绿色基础设施理念作为要素纳入到它们的可持续性发展或弹性发展的成本计算之中?绿色基础设施理念如何能够以最佳的形式销售给那些城市决策者们?
How can cities best factor green infrastructure concepts into their calculations of how sustainable or resilient they are? How can green infrastructure ideas best be sold to urban policy makers?

 

我认为,就现阶段而言,城市决策者可能正处于困惑之中。据我了解,我的一些市政建设方面的客户就是在各种困惑中徘徊不定。他们可能对于现阶段应当如何应对此类问题没有明确的方向。在过去,同样的问题,解决方法就显得单一而简单,只需要聘请一支在某一方面具备专业素养的建设团队对单一用途的基础设施进行建设施工;然而,现阶段乃至于未来的基础设施建设则需要全方位立体化的综合考量:首先需要一支跨行业的综合性建设团队,其次,这个团队需要赋予基础设施多元化利益及多功能性。就我个人的看法而言,我们已经人为地赋予了基础设施诸多的附加因素——现阶段的基础设施建设,需要汇聚工程师、建筑师、景观设计师以及生态学家的集体智慧,并经过多方的通力协作才能得以最终完成。这便是将绿色环保理念融入基础设施建设的必然产物。

I think the policymakers are probably onboard. I mean my urban clients are all for these things. They may not know exactly how to do it. If the problem in the past was having a single profession make a single-purpose infrastructure, then I think the solution in the future is really a multidisciplinary team of people who bring multiple interests and multiple functions to that infrastructure. I think we’re starting to see that more and more -- it’s engineers, architects, landscape architects, and ecologists working together on a piece of infrastructure. That's how you bring the green to the infrastructure and incorporate it into the infrastructure.


 

↓ 最近在《哈佛商业评论》中刊登的一篇文章中,作者认为,可持续发展是创新的关键驱动力。在您看来,何种形式的可持续设计将主导未来世界?是否仿生建筑及相关产物占主导地位的可能性较大?
A recent article in Harvard Business Review argues that sustainability is the key driver of innovation. What form do you think sustainable design will take in the near future? Will biomimicry and biomimetic buildings and products take off? 

 

或许吧。事实上,我认为它们已经是主导性设计形式了。它们将来的发展形态可能并不像现在这么复杂。但在未来世界里,仿生设计将涉及我们日常生活的方方面面,例如,仿生鞋、仿生手套,甚至于可移动、可排气的仿生服饰等等。随着科技的不断发展,我想我们在不久的将来就能够对结构生物功能及其运作有更为深刻的理解。计算机模拟技术的应用使得我们能够更为精确地处理相关事物,并为我们制定出更为高效可行的执行方案。

Probably. I think they already are. They may not be as sophisticated now as it will be. But all of design is really biomimicry, right? I mean a shoe or a glove is biomimicry. Clothing is biomimicry in terms of moving and breathing. I think we'll soon get to a much more sophisticated understanding of the biological function of structures and how they operate. Computer modeling allows us to do things that are way more sophisticated than before, and can give us metrics on how something performs efficiently and effectively.

 

译:90degree
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